John Dwyer runs a consulting business in Australia where he coaches small to medium sized businesses in marketing systems. He helps businesses create direct response marketing campaigns and alternatives to print advertisements.
A Quick Preview of the Podcast:
- How to market against competition without dropping your price
- John Dwyer’s five-point marketing strategy explained
- How one little bonus can exponentially impact your business
Tim: In a market filled with companies competing for your business by offering the lowest of low prices, it can be easy to think that the best way to win as a marketer is to offer discounts, sales, price reductions, etc. But a race to the bottom is exactly that.
One word you’ll end up pricing yourself out of business and devaluing your products. Sure, there’s a place for discounts but John Dwyer or JD as his friends call him has what I believe is a better to way to compete even if you’re a small fish in a big pond.
The best part, he uses an example that involves free beer. Now that’s a marketing plan I can get behind. Before we start with JD, I wanted to give you a note to get excited. Next week will be the final episode of ConversionCast of 2016 and actually, the final episode of ConversionCast in its current format.
And as such, I’m gonna be spilling the beans on the details of what to expect from the all new ConversionCast. Be sure to check out next week’s episode so you know what to expect on the all new ConversionCast that launches on January 2, 2017.
That said, I’m Tim Paige, the senior conversion educator here at LeadPages and this is ConversionCast. All right John, so let’s start off, tell the folks listening a little bit about who you are and what you do.
John: Well, I’m from down under and I’m a coach I guess of small to medium size businesses in terms of marketing systems and what I do Tim is I teach businesses how to create a direct response marketing system to their business.
Because I’ve never made anyone who bought anything off an advertisement on the side of bus turning 50 miles an hour.
Tim: [Laughs] I love it! We’re all about that here as you probably well know, so that’s awesome! And through this work that you’ve been doing with your clients and direct response to marketing, you kinda developed almost your philosophy on it.
Could you just super briefly run through the 5 facets that you worked with all your client zone?
John: Yeah sure Tim. Look, I’ve just created a wheel and I’ve brought [Indiscernible [0:02:09] picture pieces and like every single business cachet, they all got to have a silly name that you call this particular system. And I won’t frighten everybody by saying it’s a 26-point system.
It’s just 5-point system and I call it the wheel of well and the 5 points are: #1 identify your most profitable customer and they look for more paper if you look like him, #2 create a wow factor to take people’s eyes off the price because you don’t want the market the shows on products and the best example of creating a wow factor is probably the McDonalds happy meal toy.
That’s certainly, I’ve got 6 children and at one stage, we had 6 down to 12 many years ago and I’ve bought 6 billion dollars with the happy meal because of the free toy. [Laughs]
And #3 is problem solution, and again not many marketers use this and get the weight loss companies use it very very well and [Indiscernible [0:03:01] tablets use it very well and that is showing someone their problem and then providing them with the solution.
And #4 is really our coincide any other way to fix your website and most small businesses just don’t have the direct response components on their website that they should in order to keep people sticky and one of those would be having a welcome explanatory video and another one would be having a data collection facility which means a free report or free something to make sure that you captured the data, also people visiting your website.
And the 5th one Tim is creating repetitive triad. You see, if I was running McDonalds in America today, I would check the marketing manager believe it or not because today, you’ve got around a bit to 24 to half million people going through McDonalds in America today. And yet they don’t know who wanted the most.
Nobody collects data and that means is this I don’t collect data, there’s no way they can build repetitive triad by putting into a load of system.
Tim: Right, yeah interesting. And I think all of these things are hypercritical and there all things that we talked about but there’s two that really stood out as we were kinda trained to decide what made sense for this show.
So I think maybe we’ll start with you know, with creating the wow moment so that they’re not focusing on price. Can you talk a little bit about maybe some ways that you’ve worked with folks to do that or how you recommend folks get started with theirs.
John: Yeah sure Tim. Tim I guess to start with, the reason that none of us want to you know market ourselves on price is because if you developed a marketing strategy around pros, in other words pros discounting and your business is not built for it, then it’s just not sustainable. So why waste your time creating a marketing plan about you know, pros discounting.
If there’s no way you can ever be like Wal-Mart. And so my view is, is that what you need to do is to create a wow factor to take their eyes off the price and probably a good example of that here in Australia is a banking client that I had.
It’s a relatively small – it’s a 5-billion dollar business but it’s a relatively small size bank compared to the what we call the big four in Australia and I were up against these you know, 40-ton gorillas just like if you were a corner stall you’re up against Wal-Mart.
And I were doing the same ol same ol all the time, taking on the banks with interest rate which meant that if I actually was 6.2%, then the big guy down the road would be 6.1 and then I drop to 6. So we know what the end of that would be.
The little guys always got to lose. So we’re not gonna involved this consultant. I said, “Look we’ve gotta take that eyes of people getting a home loan of the price, of the interest rate”. So we developed a system where it was get a home loan, get a free vacation.
And I simply just paid for that by stopping at honeymoon, right? Because this – you would have I’m sure with your banks in America the same as we have in Australia, the most creative I guess new generation system is we’ll give you 1% honeymoon right through the first year, just hope add another jump back up again on the second year.
And I said, well stop that and 1% on a $300,000 home loan for the first year would be $3,000. Give that to a holiday travel company and now we’ll give you a $6,000 holiday because it’s a wholesale travel company.
And that’s what we did, we jumped onto the TV and we jumped on radio, we went online and we simply said, now if you’re unhappy with your bank and most people are and you haven’t treated correctly lately and you’re sick of getting charged for all of these, the one that you can consider [Indiscernible [0:06:19] is swapping to this particular bank which was called the Greater Building Society.
And we’ll give you a free vacation. And Tim, the result of that was, it blew me away, I didn’t have any idea how good it would work either and quite frankly, it doubled the home loans in the span of 3 months and tripled their home loans in the span of 18 months.
Tim: And it all came down to not, you know not trying to compete on price and that case interest rate and being willing to be the scrappy company that they are and compete on something that people would go, “holy cow, really?” A free vacation for doing something they’re gonna be doing anyway.
John: You got it and what we did Tim is just a few years ago before I stopped providing marketing apart to this bank and I’ve done to do some other things but also with them for about 10-11 years and as a consultant, but a few years ago we opt the [Indiscernible [0:07:10] and I was lucky enough to get Jerry Seinfeld to actually do the advertising for the bank.
So therefore, once we brought Seinfeld on with the free vacation, they tripled their home loan market year within 18 months.
Tim: Holy cow! That really does bring the wow, doesn’t it?
John: [Laughs] It was sort of – by the way, I’m going to drop another name in a minute, don’t be surprised if either pope Francis come out in a second.
Tim: [Laughs] I love it!
John: Don’t you like the casual way that this sells from down under just happens to say, oh by the way I just put Jerry Seinfeld on top of that a few years ago. [Laughs]
Tim: Yeah it was just you know, small thing, no big deal. I love it!
John: It was not a big deal, I just rung him up, he was mowing the lawn and he took the call.
Tim: [Laughs] We’re close personal friends. Oh that’s great!
John: So that I can bring it down a few notches for just an ordinary every day business. Why doesn’t the lawn mowing guy speaking [Indiscernible [0:08:01], why is the lawn mowing guy just off of Mrs. Smith a free bonus of cleaning her windows before he leaves and I know that sounds silly but no it wouldn’t.
I mean, he will stand up from every other lawn mowing guy there is. Why doesn’t the hair dresser offer a 9-minute, not 10 because people wouldn’t believe you’re real when you say 10 but you say you gotta free 9-minute head massage? We guarantee that.
And if you’re like me, that’s the best of the head count so…
Tim: Oh no question.
John: [Laughs] [Indiscernible [0:08:30] get me. And on my side they’d go, look would you be willing to give up 10% of your sale price if I could double your sales? And of course, everyone put their hands up and says yes.
And I say, okay, well let’s just say that you’re a hair dresser, if you put a 10% sign outside your window, would you have women you know bashing your door down? The answer is no because these days with Groupon and all the other you know, sort of coupon schemes, they start at 50%.
So how could you ever get anyone interested if you just took 10% off. I said, well let me show you how you can use that 10% to really increase your business [Indiscernible [0:08:59] well effective. And they say, okay [Indiscernible [0:09:03] let’s just say for people say you said to every woman that’s getting a hair done with you for every $50 you spend, I will give you a movie point as in a cinema, picture theater movie point.
And then when you save 6 movie points, which is $6, $15 and that’s $300, we’ll give you 2 tickets to the movies at $15 each multiplied by 2, that’s $30. $30 is the percentage of the $300 she spent, 10%.
And I know which one would work a thousand times better than putting a sign outside your door saying 10% off.
Tim: Absolutely! Absolutely, and it’s really interesting because it’s slightly outside the box thinking but it’s your almost positioning the extra thing, right? In that case, the movie tickets, you’re positioning that as something they should be excited for as oppose to again that discount pricing which is just a battle that you don’t want to get into.
John: Not, and Tim the classic of all classics was a couple of years ago, a client of mine was a turf farming, in other words, selling grass. And he was sort of interested in the wow factor thing and I said, okay, who you’re selling it to?
And he said, well mainly landscapers. You said we sell to the landscapers and they you know, build people building new homes, the landscapers are contracted to put the new grass down on the front yard or backyard.
And I said, okay, well what do you think that landscapers were interested in? Well I answered it for him. They were interested in beer.
John: [Laughs] They were interested in beer. So what we did is, he was up against all the other turf farms who were dropping their price over time for the landscapers. Because the landscaper would have you know, the upper hand. He’d say, look I’ve got 7, 8, 9 homes that I’m involved in the building process at the moment.
If you want, you know the grass – if you want me to get my grass from you, you better drop from $5 per square meter to or square yard to $4. And of course, you’d have to play that game.
And I said, no get out of that game, you don’t want to be in that game. So what we did is we held that price and he put out a direct mail campaign to 500 landscapers and I won’t stand on my own type because landscapers are not renowned for being [Indiscernible [0:11:01] that often.
And just simply had a nice big grocery and there was led up which said, every time that you spent, you buy 500 square meters of grass from me, which is a normal home, we will give you a carton of prestigious beer.
Now these landscapers normally would have just an ordinary beer, this was prestigious beer that you would get at the Hilton Hotel. And within 9 days, he rang me up and he said we’ve got a problem. And I said, what now, keep me on before we started I said how much grass have you got?
And he showed me his farm, he said, look as far as the eye can see to the mountain range that way and as far as the eye can see that way. We’re over stocked with grass. We’ll just gotta get rid of it.
He reached me out 9 days after he sent the mail campaign and he said, we’ve got a problem, I’ve got no more grass. [Laughs] And I said to him, what? He said, my name is John Dwyer but I get JD, it’s just JD, created a nice nightmare for me.
He said I had a guy that normally would beat me down on price, he’s a landscaper. He rang up yesterday and ordered 22 homes with grass and he said he didn’t gave him the grass to him, but he needed it to be by Friday.