Heather Havenwood offers business coaching under her head website heatherhavenwood.com, but she also runs a business at datingtriggers.com that she started about 7 years ago. It is a niche business in the dating industry where she helps men over 40 get back into the dating scene and coaches them on how to talk to women.
A Quick Preview of the Podcast:
- How to email your audience multiple times a day without annoying them
- The best times to send emails to increase your open rate
- How to create variety in your messaging so your audience can’t resist opening your emails
To See These Tactics In Action:
To See The Transcript:
Tim: Is it too much to email people more than once a week? How about more than once a day? Conventional wisdom says emailing more than once a day will cost you most of your subscribers. But today’s guest Heather Havenwood from HeatherHavenwood.com wanted a definitive answer to that question. So she tried one of the most unique email marketing tactics I’ve ever heard for subscribers to her dating site, DatingSugars.com. In the process, started sending four to five emails per day and got a double digit increase in her open rate. I love this case study and if you would like to get more people reading your email and buying your stuff as a result, you won’t want to miss it.
I’m Tim Page, the conversion educator here at LeadPages and this is ConversionCast.
Hey, Heather, welcome to ConversionCast. Thanks for coming on the show.
Heather: Thank you Tim. Thank you for having me.
Tim: Oh, I’m happy to have you here. And so today we’ve got some fun stuff to talk about and I think the first thing to do would be could you share with us what the results were that you were able to get from what we’re going to talk about today?
Heather: Yes, so basically the results are a massive increase in sales. So I’m all for focus on sales. Conversion is great but I want to have the conversion get into sales. So I increase a certain thing you know, over the tactic and then I basically increase my sales for the year by this one tactic.
Tim: Awesome and you mentioned a few other kind of metrics that it has helped you, you know, things like open rate. Can you share with us kind of the improvements you were able to get there?
Heather: Sure. So the average open rate I mean most people see and I see is like under 10% sometimes 6% right? My list I’m looking at some numbers right now, I’m looking at a 10.6, 12.5, 11.5, 15.5, these are open rates per email.
Tim: Got you.
Heather: And this is only the last week.
Heather: So I get a huge open rate of my emails and I consider myself my main focus of my business is email marketing. I have a lot of different areas that I focus on obviously but email marketing, I write between 4 to 5 emails a day.
Heather: So I guess you would say email marketing is my animal.
Heather: I like to tame.
Heather: So that’s where I put my focus.
Tim: Okay, very cool. So speaking of that, before we get into the tactic itself, can you tell us a little bit about what it is you do and what your business is all about?
Heather: Suure. So my name is Heather Havenwood. My main site is HeatherHavenwood.com where I do business coaching. But this particular business I’m talking about is my datingriggers.com business. That business is specifically geared towards a niche. The niche is men over 40 looking to get back into the dating scene or they want to know how to communicate and talk to women. And then I even shoot even further than that and I have it called only date younger women. So it’s very niched a business in the dating industry.
Tim: Very cool.
Heather: So that’s what one what we’re talking about in the stats today.
Tim: Got you. Yeah that’s one of the things I found so fun about a lot of these talks is that you know, a lot of times when you hear people talking about these things that they’ve done and a lot of podcasts and blogposts and stuff like that it’s things that they’ve done in the marketing and marketing to a marketers. Right?
Tim: Whereas this is something that you did in a business that is entirely unrelated itself to marketing. So I’m really excited —
Tim: –about that.
Heather: Thank you for that because it is a different audience. The audience is it’s not marketer to marketer.
Heather: and not peer to peer. The other thing that it’s not is in that kind of industry of internet marketing or market to marketing it’s trend base. You know, what’s hot what’s not.
Heather: And the things that I talk about are what I call evergreen. It’s those [indiscernible [0:03:45]] hot or not hot. So in survival or politics there’s thing you know, the news. It’s what’s exciting and what’s hot and sexy now and that can change and that can increase open rates. I’m dealing with the subject that hasn’t changed all year.
Heather: And then there’s nothing exciting or new about how to talk to women. You know what I mean?
Tim: Awesome. Yeah.
Heather: So it is a little harder to get the open rates.
Tim: Interesting. Okay, good.
Heather: In my experience.
Tim: So let’s talk about it. Can you tell us a little bit about what you did?
Heather: Yeah sure. So I got and started this business in the datingtriggers.com business about oh god, six or seven years ago. Actually Perry Belcher and Ryan Deiss are the ones that got me into it because they published me years ago.
Tim: Oh nice.
Heather: So Perry Belcher and I are actually it’s our product, it’s him and I on the product. If anyone ever listens to it, I don’t even know… They bought it but they don’t listen to it. Anyway it’s Perry Belcher and I. So that’s the distinction of the business, I want to date younger women.
Now what I did is I first had my own name Heather Havenwood it’s coming from a female and that was a unique positioning which is great. But I was only getting so much you know, open rates and it was kind of ugh.
I wasn’t getting open rates from the long term perspective and I didn’t have brand new blood in the business. I wasn’t getting the open rates and therefore wasn’t making enough money.
So what I did was I increased it. I first started with what I called late night lust. So it gave me permission to talk to them at night like I did a midnight 11 pm local time here in Texas. It gave me this permission to like oh it’s something different. You know, oh late night. It also gave me permission to talk on a different subject. It gave me, I allowed myself to give them permission to talk about in that case you know, sex, or something like that.
But then I got well what if I added another girl? You know, another friend or someone to my team, another writer and of course you know, I’m not going to hire that, it’s going to be me. So I added Ashley and Ashley talked specifically to men only about certain things. She has this particular story about her and why she got started. She’s a bar tender and it’s all made up okay.
And then I added you know, I know these guys like to talk to really younger women like you know 21, 22 so I made it Amanda. So Amanda she’s real young. She used to be a bad girl from Utah but now she’s learned how to talk to men. Anyway, and so she wants to help men too. So the team of Heather, Amanda, and Ashley we get to email the guys every single day from each other. So we’re now at five – sometimes four to five a day.
Heather: So what that does is I learned email marketing from a perspective of look at how we watch TV. You won’t see a late night show right Jerry Kimble. You won’t see him at nine am. You won’t see him at noon . You won’t see him at three o’clock going after Oprah or Ellen. You see him at 10 o’clock, 11 o’clock. Why not have a late night email? Why not have a four o’clock you know, spiritual email. Why not have a news of what’s going on what’s crazy at nine am? So you’ve mirrored what’s happening, what we’re programmed to do on TV with email.
Email now is the TV. People think that oh just one email at six am I never send an email at six am. But first I’m never up at six am.
Heather: You know, I mean of course I do my broadcast and I set them up but I’m like what I don’t read my emails at five am. Why in the hell would I send it out? And so what I learned is the more I send emails at a time where people are watching TV, you know, like nine am, noon, four o’clock, midnight, that’s when they’re in their email now.
And so with that process, I have increased my conversions of open rates but I rarely get under 7% open rate.
Tim: Really interesting. So you’ve —
Heather: Sometimes like even 21% right.
Heather: I did.
Tim: Yeah. So what you’ve done is you’ve kind of you’ve mimicked kind of the standard entertainment schedule.
Tim: And you’ve also given yourself a reason to be able to do that without just going to hey Heather again, hey Heather again, hey Heather again.
Tim: It’s kind of these different personas, these different people that make it unique and different and give reasons why you’re able to you know, talk to them at those different points.
Heather: Yeah, I mean I’ll speak from Fox News because I love Fox News okay. Now Fox News does the same thing. If you really actually watched Fox News from nine am to five pm, it says the same thing every hour because the stories don’t change okay over the day.
Heather: But you know you have The Kelly Show, you have the The Money Show. You have the… show from a different person. So you’re like oh well I like that person better, I’m going to tune in when Megan Kelly is on. Oh I like Bill O’Riley, even though Bill O’Riley and Megan Kelly they cover the same stories.
Heather: Like oh I like Bill, no I like Megan Kelly. So I’m going to open up Megan Kelly’s more than I’m going to open up Bill O’Riley’s email. It’s the same conversation. I get some guys that they love Amanda, they have conversations with Amanda. They’re like how are you Amanda. How is your day today? I mean they talk to her. So I’m feeling like they don’t like Heather. They’ll even tell Amanda they don’t like Heather.
Heather: But you know, it’s – so it’s like hey, whatever because I know where it’s all coming from the same person. But at the same it’s different personas and it gives me the permission like I said to talk differently and again it goes back to news channels. At nine o’clock when you listen to Megan Kelly she talks very differently about the story, same story than they do at noon.
Heather: So it gives you permission to do it with your audience at a different time of the day because they’re in a different place in their life supposedly, you know, relaxing, more entertainment value to say things differently therefore to get the open rates better as well as the click through. So sometimes I had done this especially during lunch time where I’m promoting one person you’re like one promoting a friend or whatever.
Heather: I’ll send the same promotion from Amanda, Heather and Ashley and I’ll send it differently with different subject lines. Some will get really you know, what I call hardcore, a little more. Like one time I’ll say inner “slut” you know, oh bad word or whatever but then Heather only talks in lovely language like intimacy. You know, so you create personalities in the copy and it gives you the right to do it. So how can people do this in their business, okay?
So if you’re an internet marketer, I’ve seen this happen actually is that you know you have your snit together or your assistant Ashley walks in and goes oh you know, Tim is out of town, I get to tell you what’s really going on in the office.
And people open that.
Heather: People open. Oh Tim is out, you know, he’s out in Fort Worth doing a podcast of a great event so I can tell you this new thing that’s happening. Now look it’s so exciting. People open that. They want to hear the scoop. They don’t always want to hear from the expert.
Heather: They’re kind of tired of that. So as a society we’re kind of oh it’s another expert, ugh you know. So hearing from the assistant or the friend or the coworker we as an entertainment America, you know, just as a society we like that and I think that is why my open rates go up and up and up.
Tim: Yeah. I’ll give a great example of this too that I had called out my wife and I had this conversation and she’s not a marketing person at all. But we both thought it was brilliant. I’m a big comic book nerd. I love all things comic book related.
Heather: I didn’t know that.
Tim: So yeah one of the websites that I get a lot of my comic book stuff from is called SuperHeroStuff.com. It’s really interesting. Their email marketing is you get different emails depending on what you’ve bought from them before. So for example my favorite character is dead pool, and his you know, human name is Wade Wilson. So when I get an email from them, a lot of the times it’s form Wade Wilson. But later on, in that day, it will come from Save That Girl which is the nickname they gave to their customer service person talking about some new specials and whatever and they’re all customized and unique based on you know, what I’ve done before my activity.
So now it’s not only they can email me multiple times a day and I open every single one of them. But now they’re based on my interest and they’re based on kind of the different personalities that I would be excited to get an email from. So yeah that’s a great, great tactic. I didn’t even think about it that way.
Heather: Email nowadays is not content. I look at this this way. It’s not content email anymore. It’s I can’t stand getting an email where it’s a big newsletter where there on the right hand side there’s all this stuff and on the left hand… Like email is not designed for that. It’s intentional based. It’s a small story, short small, click through to get you to that big page, the blog and the advertisements everywhere. But it’s not how we want in our inbox. I unsubscribe from those all the time. I think it’s not a newsletter. It really is a conversation with you Tim. You know Amanda is talking to you.
Heather: Ashley is talking to you. And you might not like Ashley but then it kind of creates this controversy. You know, again go back to Fox because I’m a Megan Kelly fan and it is really funny. I like Megan Kelly personally. I just like who she is and every now and then I watch Bill O’Riley and be like oh they said the same thing but I just like how Megan Kelly said it.
Heather: You know, it’s just stupid. But we do that. We love personality just like comics you know, you love your comic because you like their personality.
Tim: That’s definitely interesting. It’s a great way to change things up and give yourself some other opportunities. So —
Heather: let me tell you this real quick then.
Heather: If you don’t mind. Because I get. When I say this at masterminds, first they don’t believe me until they get on my list. The second thing is they ask about my complaints and my unsubscribes. It’s actually really low. In fact I’m looking at right now at some stats in my email marketing I have zero.
Heather: I rarely get complaints. Now they’ll respond they’ll email. Like hey, take me off this list. I don’t like you or something like that which we all got.
Heather: Then I’ll unsubscribe them. But I don’t get complaints and that’s —
Heather: – a big difference you know, email marketing complaints on your system versus someone just doesn’t like you.
Heather: So what I encourage everyone to do is mirror the I call them news cycle. We have a morning news. We have a noon news. We have a five o’clock news and then we have the entertainment news which is Jimmy Kimmel. [Indiscernible [0:14:28]]
Tim: yeah that’s great. That’s awesome. I love this. This is a great tactic. Thank you so much for sharing this with us and it’s been fun chatting with you on ConversionCast.
Heather: Thank you.
Tim: Wow. Is that a unique tactic or what? Sending that many emails per day from different personas and getting such incredible results that’s pretty cool and might be something worth testing in your business. Now as you probably noticed by now, we create a little guide to every episode that we do and post it up for free on our website at ConversionCast.com. If you head over there, you’ll see the episode and today’s with Heater Havenwood obviously and there’s a little button. You can click it, enter your email address and we’ll send that guide off to you absolutely free. It’s going to just break down and help you on your stand exactly how to implement what Heather talked about on the show today. So head over to ConversionCast.com and of course head on back to listen to ConversionCast next Monday. We’ll see you then.
Listen To Discover The Unique Email Marketing Strategy That Achieves A Double Digit Open Rate