Neville Medhora is one of the copywriters of AppSumo (appsumo.com), a website that is described as Groupon for nerds. AppSumo promotes products for people that want to be more productive. Neville is a master wordsmith who increased AppSumo’s engagement and revenue through great copywriting and teaches others to do the same at kopywritingkourse.com.
A Quick Preview of the Podcast:
- The one tactic you need to use to effectively communicate with your email list.
- How to write powerful copy that engages your readers and increases your revenue.
- The 2 keys to focus on when writing to your list that makes readers want to open your emails time and again.
To See This Tactic In Action:
To See The Transcript:
Tim: Welcome to Conversion Cast, the only podcast that gets to the heart of the metrics. Now here’s another data driven case study.
Hello fellow marketers, thanks for being here on this wonderful Monday morning. Today’s guest is going to be sharing a few different beautiful tactics to help you get incredible results with your email list. One of the simplest to implement and probably my favorite is called the Caveman Voice. On our website, we’ve got a simple, specific breakdown of how to use the caveman voice to immediately turn your copywriting into a highly effective sales generating machine. Visit ConversionCast.com/AppSumoDownload, that’s ConversionCast.com/AppSumoDownload and download this amazing free breakdown right now.
Now we talk a lot on this show about how to tweak and change one or two tiny things in your business to see incredible results and we’ve been blown away by the various tests that people have used. But today we’re going to be discussing a kind of mentality shift accompanied by powerful tactical actions that have resulted in huge success for a ton of companies. One such company is AppSumo. If you’re not familiar with AppSumo, you should be. They’re as our guest puts it like Groupon for nerds. They provide great deals on stuff for entrepreneurs and they’ve grown to become a behemoth in the online space. Neville Medhora, today’s guest was a huge part of the success in AppSumo. He overhauled [0:01:41] [Indiscernible] copy which resulted in the $9000 per email revenue increase. He also heads up copywriting course, a training course based on the strategies and tactics Neville used at AppSumo. With all of that said, he’s sharing how he did it and how you can do it so let’s just dig in.
But a quick word of warning, Neville is a word man and as such, this is a longer episode than usual. But there’s not a piece of it that’s anything less than super valuable so listen to the whole thing and don’t forget to get your free guide to the caveman voice tactic that Neville shares on this episode. Again, that URL is ConversionCast.com/AppSumo download. So get it right now. I’m Tim Page, the Conversion educator here at LeadPages. This is Conversation Cast and here’s Neville Medhora from AppSumo.
Hey, Neville, thanks so much for being here today. I’m excited to talk with you.
Neville: Oh my god, I’m excited to talk to you Tim.
Tim: [Laughs] I love it. Somebody finally matched my enthusiasm.
Neville: I am drinking a massive amount of tea right now.
Tim: [Laughs] Perfect. All right so share with us first just the results that you were able to get from what we’re going to talk about today.
Neville: So I think what we’re going to talk about mostly is going to be copywriting right and we’ve got a little company called AppSumo, I’ve got a company called Copywriting Course. So naturally these two things kind of blend together and AppSumo.com, it’s basically like Groupon for nerds. We get deals and send them out to entrepreneurs, wantrepreneurs, copywriters, programmers, developers, etc. Right? What happens is whenever you send out a lot of emails with promotions, you are kind of a spammer okay. Right off the bat right? You send a bunch of stuff like hey buy this, hey buy this, tomorrow hey buy this and that’s not really cool. A lot of people don’t like that all the time. So what we decided to do and what I kind of did with the change in our emails was I decided to educate people on stuff. I wanted to make these emails like so good that whenever they got them even if they were just on the toilet reading these emails for five minutes, they were just like whoa, this is like this is awesome stuff, okay.
So the big change came when Noah Kagan who founded the company he was like number 30 at Facebook and hold an impressive resume. He moved to Austin and literally off my couch. He was building AppSumo. He would come and work with me. He had about 50,000 subscribers to AppSumo that he had and he would send out these really small emails that would say like grasshopper phone service, $25 for $100 voucher. I remember thinking like wow that’s actually a really good deal because I was looking to get grasshopper but that email sucked. The email was so bad it was just like that’s all it said.
So for some people they would immediately be like oh I am currently in the market for grasshopper right now and I’m about to purchase it. I will buy this deal. But that’s a really small number as you know Tim like only about 11% of your current audience is actually interested in what you’re about to buy. Of that 11% of that audience of 50,000 people only about 10% of those would be right in the right mood at the right moment to buy something like grasshopper. So that’s a really, really small amount of people.
But I thought you know, what if people knew how cool grasshopper was? What if people knew that like it makes a small company look big because you have a really great phone system. What if you had things that you could forward to your cell phone at certain times but cut it off and at six you want to go play with your kids. You don’t want interruptions from your customers you could turn that off automatically. So I thought let’s write a really long email about that and enter the copywriting. So the very first deal we had was this deal called [0:05:26] [Indiscernible] okay. It’s irrelevant what that is.
But I’ll just explain to you, it was a deal for designers, okay, hard core designers. What it was was font matching. Do you even know what that is?
Tim: No. No I never heard of it.
Neville: Font matching is where you take like Arial and Tahoma and like Arial size 25 and Tahoma size 18. Only like the nerdiest of nerdy designers will like ever in their life be like oh my god that’s a good font match. You know? The rest of us just see fonts and we’re like oh that looks cool and like that look or that page looks good but we don’t know why. The hardcore designers kind of like Jonathan Ide and Steve Jobs from Apple, those guys are really into design. I thought you know, I have read books on these guys and I know that they are so into fonts. Why don’t I write a story and this was of course before Steve Jobs passed, about how they look at fonts and why fonts are so important. Instead of just saying hey Kernest we’re sending you a deal for a lifetime subscription to a font matching service, which honestly I was like who the hell cares about this.
So I wrote this three-page kind of like long thing with I don’t know how rough we can get on this podcast but there were some kind of language in it that was very unique for marketing. You know, for example it says if you get a boner if I whisper Garamond in your ear.
Neville: So most people wouldn’t get that but you would – if you were a designer, you know that Garamond is a font. I also said if you get weak whenever I whisper Verdana in your ears, this might for you. If not, discontinue reading. So I basically right off the bat qualify and disqualify people who should be reading because this was a long email. This is three full pages in an email. I said you know, if you don’t know what these fonts are, like why would you even read this? It’s pointless. Then I said if you’re a designer, continue on. And then I went on to show why it’s important to match fonts then I went on to show why it’s hard to match fonts and then I went on to show the benefit of having fonts just sent to you and how you can actually increase your prices and delight your customers by using these fonts even though they don’t know you’re using these fonts.
So I made a full case of why people should buy this right? I even explained to them how designers can delight their customers, more which is what they want to do. So for that reason, this became the highest AppSumo deal ever. At the time, no deal had made more than $10,000 in profit. This one immediately made more than $10,000 in profit and it was a font package. Like it was not supposed to be a big deal. So me and Noah are both actually a little bit shocked by how well it worked and we’re just like oh so the only difference between this deal and every other deal was the copy. That was it.
Neville: So it went from making maybe $3000 per send out to all of a sudden over $12,000 this time.
Neville: Yeah and this was supposed to be the smallest deal. Like we had like grasshopper. We had read –sorry immature deals, also like real cool deals in the past and this random font thing just totally blew it out of the water. So of course Noah was like hey, yeah can you do that copywriting thing again?
Neville: I was like yeah, I’ll give it a try. So I did it on the next deal and the next deal and the next deal and the next deal and from then on every deal made a lot of money.
Tim: Wow. That’s awesome. We need to keep digging into this because this is going to be valuable to pretty much everybody listening to this because pretty much any company can benefit from this kind of copywriting.
Neville: Oh my god, Tim, you have come to like the right guy because I’ve literally consulted with like hundreds of people on this kind of stuff. I see the same problems with every single person. One of the most common things is if you have enterprise clients listening to this right now, they say the same thing. Oh you can say those crazy dirty things in startup emails but we’re an enterprise corporation. We can’t say those kinds of things. Sure, you can’t say if you get a boner when you whisper Garamond. That’s probably not going to fly with big words. Like there’s a lot of other stuff you can say that will hone down your marketing message a lot better than what you’re doing and big companies are the worst at this. I could definitely shed some light on that if you’d like.
Tim: Yeah. So let’s do this. Before we get into that, let’s –tell me first the numbers that behind this. Because you said that you know, this has had a huge impact. We just heard about the profit increase, tell us about the impact that it’s had on kind of your list size and also the engagement for your list.
Neville: Oh my god. So list size at the time we started that it was 50,000. At the time we speak, it’s around 730,000 and we got to that 700,000 number maybe a year and a half or two years ago before we decided to not pour all profits back into growing. But here’s the thing, there’s a lot of people with big lists. There’s a lot of especially kind of like the scammy internet marketing crowd.
Neville: There’s a lot of people with 400,000 people but the way they got those and the way they hold on to those emails is rather dubious. With us, we’re just like you know what, here’s the test, would we want our friends and family to be on our lists? It’s funny because like Noah’s mom is actually on the AppSumo list and like comments on every single deal.
Neville: It’s hilarious and she would read all these deals and laugh or frown at some of them. The thing was people would tell us, this is a quote actually. It’s one of my favorite quotes. People would say getting AppSumo emails is like getting a free MBA. The reason was even if someone wasn’t interested in a deal, we explained so much more in the emails. There was so much more in depth than just simply a deal that people learn from it. For example, let me give you example. Are you using a Mac or a PC?
Tim: A Mac.
Neville: You’re using Mac, I’m a Mac guy too okay? However there’s a lot of people that use PCs right obviously.
Neville: So there’s a lot of people who use PCs and if we sent out a deal for the Mac we at the time really didn’t have any way to know that like if someone uses the Mac or not based on their email address. So I would say right in the beginning if you’re not a Mac user, don’t read this, okay. You know what all the PC users did? They read it.
Neville: And I thought like that was just some sort of like reverse psychology he don’t read this kind of thing. No. What it was was people would tell us, they’re like we genuinely just like reading the AppSumo emails. I was like you like reading an email where people are trying to sell you something? They’re like yeah, because you learn so much now. What I didn’t realize was I was talking about Alfred for the Mac right and it’s just a little program. You press command space and like it pops up a little thing and it’s just a very useful little tool for the Mac. [0:12:21] [Indiscernible] But at the same time, instead of just saying oh this is a cool little tool for the Mac, download it, I would say I am a computer guy and much like you, you’re probably a computer person too, most people who read the AppSumo email for computer people.
Neville: And you probably spend between 8 and 10 hours a day on your computer. Now if you actually calculate the amount of time it takes you to click and open new tabs and things like that, it actually adds up to about 30 minutes to an hour per day whenever you use the computer that much. Doing all these little tasks just moving your finger across your laptop or moving your mouse across your screen actually takes time and it adds up throughout the day. So they calculated it’s like – it’s between like 30 minutes and 60 minutes per day.
With Alfred that actually cuts that hour out. Meaning you get a full extra hour of work into your day without doing all these like stupid little tasks here and there. So if you use Alfred, you can actually be more productive. Not only that but it’s been scientifically proven that if it’s easier to do a task you’re more likely to do it. So something as simple as like opening the calculator on the Mac. I have to kind of like go to the apps thing and search for it and click it. Sometimes I’ll just pull out my phone and use that calculator because it’s easier.
But instead with Alfred, once the Alfred command is up, you literally type in any formula and it automatically spits out the answer before you even press enter. So for little things like that, it actually is much more convenient to use Alfred.
So anyways, I went on kind of like a whole scientific reasoning why people should save time in this way and even the PC people loved it you know?
Neville: And they would still read it. So you’re talking about engagement. Think about it from this way. Most people only read a newsletter for about you know, 20 seconds before they decide like okay I got the gist and I’m done. People would read AppSumo emails on average for about two and a half to three and a half minutes meaning they’re reading the whole thing.
Neville: So we have their time every single day for several minutes. That’s huge, that’s huge and they trust us and they like us and they learn from us. So they stick around for a long time. That’s why our engagement is so high and our drop-off is so low.
Tim: Yeah that’s unbelievable. So —
Tim: –let’s kind of talk to first let’s talk to some kind of advice for somebody who maybe they’re a solopreneur trying to implement this tactic and figuring out a way that they can use this stuff in their business. So like for example, here at Conversion Cast, basically what we’ve got is we just got our list through InfusionSoft and we’ve got our website on WordPress. You know, what would be one way that I could kind of use this to continue to increase engagement and grow my list?
Neville: Okay. So there’s a couple of tactics and I’m going to say the paid way is to go to KopyWritingKourse.com with 2 Ks and buy Neville’s stuff and watch it all. That’s a great way to do it.
Neville: The freeway and here’s actually what I suggest. If you haven’t done this and allow me to really, really get this in your brain okay.
Neville: So I’m going to go on a bit of a rant to get you to do this. Here’s the reason. The people that have done this I’ve seen go on to like start businesses and stuff. The people that I’ve seen that have like not heeded this advice, they really don’t go anywhere. I’ve seen this clear distinction between the two okay.
The Gary Halbert letters, have you heard of these?
Tim: Oh yeah.
Neville: Okay. Have you heard of the Boron letters?
Neville: Okay. So you’re ahead of the game but let me explain for some of the people here why the Boron letters are so great. One ,they’re free okay. So don’t think I’m trying to sell you anything here.
Neville: Gary Halbert was he’s currently deceased but like he was a great copywriter. He was a crazy guy but just one of the great marketing guys of the past generation. He wrote these letters from jail and I’ll let him explain why he’s in jail while he’s writing these letters. But what you can do and here’s what I want you to do, I want you to go to your local store and buy a printer cartridge of ink, okay. Because you’re going to use the whole thing up.
Tim: Oh yeah.
Neville: And a bunch of paper. I want you to search on Google Gary Halbert, the boron letters chapter 1 and I want you to print that out okay. Don’t even read it. Don’t read it online. Trust me do not read it on your computer. It is meant to be printed out. Just print it out, just do it. Trust me. The people that do this go on to become big. The people that don’t and they just kind scan it, don’t. Print out chapter 1 then print out chapter 2 then chapter 3, chapter 4, etc., chapters 1 through 25. What I personally did was and I assume with the boron letters, you got hooked on them too right?
Tim: Oh absolutely.
Neville: Oh man, I was printing out three chapters per day and I would not go until six in the morning every night because I was like so engrossed in these letters. Like I just could not put them down. So I was printing out three chapters a day, stapling them and reading them. I still have them by bed until this day and pick them all the time.
Neville: So read the Boron letters. That will be kind of like your education and copy right there. With that said, that’s one of the three things you can go off and do. What do you want to know from me that I can help you with right now?
Tim: So what would you say have been some of your key takeaways for that that would be easy to – not easy but something that could be quickly implemented by say a solopreneur?
Neville: Okay. So how about this? There’s this concept I kind of came up with called the caveman voice okay. The caveman voice is kind of like one of those guy coaching [0:18:02] [Indiscernible] commercial cavemen. It’s just like think of a caveman. Think of like me Neville, me copywriter, me bored like this is stupid. Like very unfiltered, raw inner expression right?
Neville: Now let me read this to you. This is a real company that I use an example of and sorry to disown them but it’s called WhichBox? Media, like WhichBox? Media.
Neville: Here’s what they call themselves. This is literally what their web page says. WhichBox? Is not an app or a singular focused application. WhichBox? is all media content creation, content management, social networking, social media and use generated content. Ad serving, ecommerce delivery to any tablet and multidomain management and more all wrapped in one. Okay?
Neville: Now apologize for the verbal onslaught of buzzwords right there.
Neville: Do you know what the hell do they do?
Tim: No. No clue.
Neville: You know what I don’t either.
Neville: I have no idea what that means. And then they go on and I’m not even going to bother you but it’s just a bunch of jargony stuff. But a lot of companies are guilty of what this page is doing. They talk about like very buzz wordy, very impressive sounding yet doesn’t explain it kind of thing okay? I actually called up a CEO of this company and said I read every page on your webpage and I don’t know what you do. Can you tell me?
She started saying well no matter what kind of content or media you produce including traditionals magazines, print newspapers, TV, radio or more WhichBox? Is designed for you. We are content creators and content owners of all stripes. I was like whoa, whoa, whoa I still don’t know what you were talking about okay.
Neville: Basically what you got to do in your startup or your enterprise business is clearly and in one or two sentences completely and make the other person understand what it is you do. So I kind of found out what WhichBox does is if you are an offline business, you do everything offline like you’re a newspaper they put everything online for you.
So if you’re a newspaper you have classifieds and you have pictures and you have articles, WhichBox? media puts all of that online and they run the whole thing. They run your entire website. If you have audio stuff that you need to put up, they put up the audio. You have images, they put up images. Simple as that. Instead of having a big IT department for your offline business, such as a bakery or a newspaper they will do everything for you. That makes it a lot easier, right? Like —
Tim: Oh yeah it’s simple.
Neville: Yeah, exactly. So you have to simplify your message down to a very simple thing so people totally understand it. Here’s the trick. If you are too proud of what you wrote, if it sounds too impressive, you’ve probably already failed.
Neville: It should sound like cavemen like if someone started saying [0:20:56] [Indiscernible] integrated conversion technology platform, the caveman inside of you would go like that’s stupid, I don’t understand, I don’t get it.
Neville: But if it says like you know, if you have a bakery we may your website put online. It’s like oh okay, you know like that’s the caveman voice I kind of use. So that’s one of the things. If I can’t scan something and understand it, other people can’t.
Tim: So with everything that you did, with changing all the copy for these AppSumo emails, what would you say made it work so well? I mean if you had to sum that down into something that was easy to explain in say two sentences what would you say made that work so well?
Neville: I could sum it down for you in one word.
Neville: Education. Okay.
Neville: There’s a bunch of people on this list that are entrepreneurs and developers and if I could help them like for example you run a podcast right Tim?
Neville: If I said oh hey, I did this thing to go from 50,000 subscribers on my podcast to 700,000. You want to know what it is?
Tim: Yes, absolutely.
Neville: Yeah, yeah. You probably would be very interested in learning that right?
Neville: So if I were to tell a developer hey you probably charge around $80 an hour that’s what the average good developer charges, what if I can boost you to $160 an hour and your clients will be happy to pay you? Do you think they’re going to be like no, I don’t want to learn that delete? No. They’re probably going to stick around and even if I required them to sign up to something they probably do it.
So we would tell them really great information and that was the main thing behind the emails. They educated me. They made me better prepared to go out in the entrepreneurial field or the designer field or the programming field. They helped me. Every single email I got or that people would get would improve their lives in some way.
Now they were funny. I always made the emails funny but that was not the main point. There is a lot of emails that were not funny that totally killed it. I could even give you examples of any of these if you like. So basically education is the main thing. You need to educate people and find out what they’re really trying to do. You know, are they really trying to use grasshopper, the phone system because they want a nice phone system or is the underlying reason why they’re trying to get grasshoppers because they want to look like a big company. But really it’s just them in their mom’s basement, you know?
Neville: So we would address those things and educate people with really damn good stuff.
Tim: Absolutely. All right let’s do this one last exercise and then we’ll get out of here. So let’s say –let me just pick somebody out from our audience. Let’s say there’s somebody listening that is a –they’re a health coach right and they’re got this email list what would be a great – let’s say they’ve got a new course coming out where they’re going to teach people about super foods right? What would be a great way to send out an email to get people to sign up for super foods? Can we go through this exercise?
Neville: Absolutely. So here’s a little quick formula you can use for your emails okay and it seems really simple and it is but just go along with me. It’s life plus your product okay. So what a lot of people do is they just talk about their product. So let’s say Jeff is the super foods coach okay?
Neville: Jeff the super foods coach. He on his email list of maybe 7000 people okay, he sends out all the time like oh you should totally buy super foods. You need to buy super foods. I’m a super food coach. Here’s how I started. Here’s how blah, blah, blah. You know, there might be some people interested in Jeff that much to where like they listen you know kind of like a personal blog.
Neville: But not everyone – people are going to get tired of that okay?
Neville: It’s just product. So what Jeff could do is without like not promoting his product, he could still promote his product but just do it for life okay. So talk about a life issue, what’s a life issue? So he’s talking about health okay. What does super foods do for you? They make you more healthy. Right?
Neville: What else do super foods do? Let’s talk about something embarrassing like almost kind of like a weird question Noah would talk about going to the bathroom or something like that. He could talk about going to the bathroom in the morning, the difference between when he used to user super foods and when he didn’t. Right? That would be something kind of weird and interesting that he could talk about.
Neville: There’s all sorts of things you could talk about, relationships, oh, oh relationships are a big part of life. My ex-girlfriend didn’t like the way I ate so I had to break up with her or the problems caused in my current relationship when I started eating healthy or how do I get my spouse to start eating healthy without making her feel bad? You know those are all kinds of really interesting topics you could talk about without directly saying instead of just saying hey buy super foods, buy super foods, buy super foods, right?
Neville: So what he could talk about is I’m sure that’s a common problem. I want to start eating healthy but my spouse doesn’t. How do I approach that subject? That’s kind of even whenever I ask that question right now it’s kind of like whoa that’s a tricky one right?
Neville: So if Jeff the super foods guy can help you answer that question, he could probably end up in the long term like one becoming your friend kind of through email and then two selling a whole lot more super foods stuff.
Neville: Yeah. Because he’s actively talking about the super foods stuff but not necessarily just saying buy super foods, buy super foods, buy super foods. He’s talking about it subtly right.
Neville: Oh I wanted to start eating super foods like my wife who was a little bit overweight at time who’s really sensitive to it because she was self-conscious about her own weight. So here’s how I helped her get over that and made sure she knew I still loved her but still wanted to do this for us, you know, kind of thing. That’s a more interesting way to sell something than just saying buy super foods.
Tim: Yeah. I love it. So to kind of sum it up it sounds like the idea is to educate in a way that obviously you’re still selling but in a way that people are actually giving a lot of value out of it. So you’re educating, you’re injecting some humor and maybe one kind of common theme that I’m picking up is kind of talking about something that might be a little different and unusual is that right?
Neville: That generally helps.
Neville: To anything that is new, novel or useful people pay attention to.
Neville: So if something is a little bit unique then yes and also if it kind of hits them in the gut right? Like that question how to get your spouse to start eating healthier if she doesn’t want to or something like that.
Neville: That is really kind of like gut wrenching question for a lot of people.
Neville: They might not know the answer and so they’re going to click that even though they’re reading their emails in the morning and didn’t expect to be reading about that. That would be very, very interesting stuff.
Tim: All right. So you know, you’ve offered some opportunities to check out some resources. Obviously go download the Born letters and you can check out Kopywriting Kourse. I think it would be valuable if you would just kind of share a way that somebody could you know, get a hold of what you have available so they can learn copywriting from you. So go ahead share that with us please.
Neville: Yeah. So if you actually want to learn more about this, the best way I’d say and I’m going to offer you a couple of different options is KopyWritingKourse.com. And that’s for 69 bucks in two hours, I’ll teach how to write higher converting copy as simple as that. That is my promise to you. $69, two hours of your time and you will write better copy. It’s actually a really, really fun course. Thousands of people have taken it. It is rated super, super, super high, 100% refund guarantee all that kind of stuff. If you want to learn copy try that.
The other easy way is I have a book on Amazon called This Book Will Teach You to Write Better, simple enough right?
Neville: It’s five bucks or it’s 2.99 in the Kindle. It will teach you kind of the basics of copywriting, really quick. It’s a 30-minute read. It’s awesome. It’s super good. The other really, really cheap way is if you don’t want to study copy but let’s say your boss is nagging you at 3:00 pm the whole marketing team is going to take a look at something you’re going to write and you don’t know what to write and it’s 2:00 p.m. and you’re like oh my god, what am I going to write. I have a think called the kopywriting checklist, kopywriting checklist. You Google App Sumo kopywriting checklist and you’ll find it. It’s 10 bucks. It’s super cheap. It’s a PDF and you’d literally just follow the steps and plug in stuff to my formulas and by the end you’ll be like 90% done with a scientific kind of proven sales letter for anything. It’s really, really awesome. The response to that has been through the roof. We actually could not believe it. So if you want to learn more about copywriting, check those out. There’s a copywriting course, the copywriting checklist and this book will teach you to write better.
If you want, sign up for KopyWritingKourse.com. There’s a free email newsletter. It’s really, really, really good. You will get a complete free education and copy and I suggest you read that.
Tim: Awesome and I would say that to get on the AppSumo list as well if you’re not so that you can learn kind of the stuff that he’s been talking about today.
Neville: Oh, absolutely. You get all these new tools and stuff that you never heard of before.
Tim: I love it Neville. This has been awesome. Thanks so much for coming on the show and sharing some really valuable stuff and I know that if people implement this, they’re going to see a big difference in their business. So thanks again for being here. It’s been awesome.
Neville: No problem man.
Tim: Wow. There’s so much amazing stuff there and you heard them talk about it so now go get our free breakdown of how to do it in your business. ConversionCast.com/AppSumoDownload that’s where you need to go in order to see the breakdown of the cavemen voice tactic. Again ConversionCast.com/AppSumoDownload. So go get it now and we’ll see you on the next episode of ConversionCast.
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